I do get a lot of invitations on Facebook etc. to sign up for causes that I don't entirely agree with. The problem is the questions are always polarised... it usually a case that by choosing A you reject/condemn B. The latest one is a move to persuade Google to rename Israel Palestine... this brings up a number of nuanced issues which aren't really accommodated in that request.
Israel is a 2,700ish year old name for parts of that area, Palestine is a 2,000 year+ Roman name for it (or a 2,500 yo Greek name). Latin isn't spoken by the inhabitants of this area today - therefore a Latin name seems inappropriate. Then again, Palestine may be etymologically related to Philistine... the pre-Hebrew residents of Israel... generally regarded in the Bible as a Bad Thing - due, inter alia, to their unpleasant religious practices (sacred prostitutes, child sacrifice etc.) Seriously - would you want a name that referred to that sort of culture? Then again, it might suggest history repeating itself - according to the Bible God gave the Jews Caanan - they were permitted to slay the inhabitants. Surely modern Israelis can't see the Palestinian Arabs as latter-day Philistines... but perhaps the religious nutters do. It is a little sinister how the name has persisted even though Philistia has long gone. Then again, genetically the people of that area must be very similar... can the Jews be so genetically distinct from the Arabs? I know that there are lots of distinctions, but their languages and so on suggest that they have always been related. What was Abraham before he became a "Jew" or at least a monotheist Hebrew patriarch -was he a Hebrew - in the sense of a distinct, different group amongst the Semitic groups living in Chaldea? Surely a member of a Semitic language/culture group? The story of Isaac - I think - indicates the Hebrew rejection of child sacrifice - as a way of distinguishing himself (and his descendents) from this disagreeable early Semitic religious practice... but there is so much I don't know - and I have digressed vastly.
I think the Israeli government stinks, and their policies are appalling, particularly their aggression towards the Palestinian Christians and Muslims who live alongside them.
I think the land was settled unfairly and in an uncontrolled way. The settlers should be removed and/or punished for breaking the agreements made.
I think because of the Holocaust, the Jews needed their "own" country. Israel was the obvious area, but a better agreement/settlement with the arab population should have been made. However, I do think they have a right to be there.
The Israelis adopted the same sort of terrorist tactics to get Israel - but the British crumbled sooner. The Israelis should have agreed to speak to Hammas as soon as they came to power, this would have resulted in a moderation of Hammas's views and greater flexibility in negotiation.
God has a great deal to say in the Hebrew bible about how he wants Israel to be ruled - the words justice, peace and mercy occur frequently. The recent Israeli governments are not living up to this - when the Babylonians conquered Israel it was because the people had turned away from God and were behaving appallingly. Maybe this could happen again...
One of the Hassidic rabbis (whose name escapes me) leads a group which believes that Israel should not have been taken back - that scripturally, the Jews should have waited until it was given to them.... arguably the Balfour Settlement gave it to them, but...
I am aware that I don't know the details, and I should do some research. I wonder how much this obsession with Palestine on the left is anti-semitic?
My own position is this: everything above, an awareness of my own ignorance of the topic, and the mysterious discovery that because of my great-grandmother Sawdie I have the right to go and live in Israel - which I would never ever wish to do. I would rather live in Russia - or any other repressive place. I can understand people being repressive for their own ends and power - I cannot understand how a country which has tied its existence to a historic culture/religion, which in theory seeks to spread justice and peace has become so repressive and unjust and apparently never asks whether there isn't another way.
I won't sign this petition because I feel there are 100s of 1,000s of Israelis who do want justice and peace and a safe place to be Jewish... I won't sign it for them because I hope they will one day come to the surface and change their country to make it a better place for all its citizens and to live in peace with its neighbours.
Israel is a 2,700ish year old name for parts of that area, Palestine is a 2,000 year+ Roman name for it (or a 2,500 yo Greek name). Latin isn't spoken by the inhabitants of this area today - therefore a Latin name seems inappropriate. Then again, Palestine may be etymologically related to Philistine... the pre-Hebrew residents of Israel... generally regarded in the Bible as a Bad Thing - due, inter alia, to their unpleasant religious practices (sacred prostitutes, child sacrifice etc.) Seriously - would you want a name that referred to that sort of culture? Then again, it might suggest history repeating itself - according to the Bible God gave the Jews Caanan - they were permitted to slay the inhabitants. Surely modern Israelis can't see the Palestinian Arabs as latter-day Philistines... but perhaps the religious nutters do. It is a little sinister how the name has persisted even though Philistia has long gone. Then again, genetically the people of that area must be very similar... can the Jews be so genetically distinct from the Arabs? I know that there are lots of distinctions, but their languages and so on suggest that they have always been related. What was Abraham before he became a "Jew" or at least a monotheist Hebrew patriarch -was he a Hebrew - in the sense of a distinct, different group amongst the Semitic groups living in Chaldea? Surely a member of a Semitic language/culture group? The story of Isaac - I think - indicates the Hebrew rejection of child sacrifice - as a way of distinguishing himself (and his descendents) from this disagreeable early Semitic religious practice... but there is so much I don't know - and I have digressed vastly.
I think the Israeli government stinks, and their policies are appalling, particularly their aggression towards the Palestinian Christians and Muslims who live alongside them.
I think the land was settled unfairly and in an uncontrolled way. The settlers should be removed and/or punished for breaking the agreements made.
I think because of the Holocaust, the Jews needed their "own" country. Israel was the obvious area, but a better agreement/settlement with the arab population should have been made. However, I do think they have a right to be there.
The Israelis adopted the same sort of terrorist tactics to get Israel - but the British crumbled sooner. The Israelis should have agreed to speak to Hammas as soon as they came to power, this would have resulted in a moderation of Hammas's views and greater flexibility in negotiation.
God has a great deal to say in the Hebrew bible about how he wants Israel to be ruled - the words justice, peace and mercy occur frequently. The recent Israeli governments are not living up to this - when the Babylonians conquered Israel it was because the people had turned away from God and were behaving appallingly. Maybe this could happen again...
One of the Hassidic rabbis (whose name escapes me) leads a group which believes that Israel should not have been taken back - that scripturally, the Jews should have waited until it was given to them.... arguably the Balfour Settlement gave it to them, but...
I am aware that I don't know the details, and I should do some research. I wonder how much this obsession with Palestine on the left is anti-semitic?
My own position is this: everything above, an awareness of my own ignorance of the topic, and the mysterious discovery that because of my great-grandmother Sawdie I have the right to go and live in Israel - which I would never ever wish to do. I would rather live in Russia - or any other repressive place. I can understand people being repressive for their own ends and power - I cannot understand how a country which has tied its existence to a historic culture/religion, which in theory seeks to spread justice and peace has become so repressive and unjust and apparently never asks whether there isn't another way.
I won't sign this petition because I feel there are 100s of 1,000s of Israelis who do want justice and peace and a safe place to be Jewish... I won't sign it for them because I hope they will one day come to the surface and change their country to make it a better place for all its citizens and to live in peace with its neighbours.
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